Jones Blog

Meet a very successful man who had to deal with the same problem:

Dr. Ben Carson's site

Hope this helps!
 

Yes. I have read Dr. Carson's book and and have seen him speak. He is a great example.
 

He works HARD to be perceived as cool in settings of African Americans

What's cool though? I think I know but I'm really too far removed from the situation to be certain.

Is it within your power to create within your family a definition of cool that is supportive of success and a celebration of intellect that may be at odds with the definition of cool that is predominant in the African-American community?

Your Little One, can he become The One, to stretch a metaphor from the Matrix, can he earn respect with his African-American extended family and peers that doesn't involve him having to change to meet their terms but them accepting his "odd" values? Can he become a virus of sorts that shows it's OK to have a different value system?

Look, you probably see me dancing around the issue so let me be more straightforward. On this particular question I think that African-American community values, or customs, are a problem for young boys. Obviously this isn't an original insight but it's not often talked about in polite company - however your son's future is at stake and that's certainly more important than social nicities. Now, the problem is what are you going to do about it? Can you moderate just slightly without making any hard decisions and hope that all will turn out OK? Or do you need to do something that insures a wide margin of error in terms of changing the culture, or environment, your son is raised in as well as changing the values he drinks in every day? How much of the decisions will involve a direct rejection of the values that you picked up?

We could be talking minor points here, like those mentioned in the NYT link I dropped a few days ago, such as how White families tend to read more to their young children while Black families tended to emphasize singing songs. Sure, it's minor, but at such young ages brain development responds differently to different types of stimuli. So does personality. Or it could be more major value changes. Everything one does in life has an effect of some sort. Perhaps it might involve selecting your son's peers for him at this early age, with an eye to children you see who can reinforce the lessons and values that you're stressing at home. Child #1 has less playtime because he has to go and read a story to his parents before dinner isn't as much fun as the child who can play longer because he has no such duty. If all your son sees is other children who have these uncool chores to do, LOL, then his peer group tends to shape him and he doesn't feel left out. However, as parents how important is it to you that his peer-group be reflective, either in whole or in part, of his cultural heritage?

Anyways, I've rambled on enough.
 

TangoMan: You DO challenge a sista!

"Now, the problem is what are you going to do about it? Can you moderate just slightly without making any hard decisions and hope that all will turn out OK? Or do you need to do something that insures a wide margin of error in terms of changing the culture, or environment, your son is raised in as well as changing the values he drinks in every day?"

O.K. All I can think to do is expose him to variety of environments and put forth 'rules' that together instill the cultural values I want him to have. No one environment has even half of what I want for him. (Is this typical for a mother)? It's an important point though because it implies that I have to define the key lessons/values I want for LO - which is what I should do if I REALLY care about long term parenting. Let's see.. I want him to be grounded (i.e. comfortable in his own skin), kind, smart, and global. By that I mean someone who has seen the world and is comfortable in lots of cultures. It gives you something that makes you a better person I think.) I'm trying to do that with the volunteerism, exposure to other ethnicities, and strict homeschooling (for now). The jury's out as to what the model will look like in a year or even a week from now. I'm open.
 

I want him to be grounded (i.e. comfortable in his own skin), kind, smart, and global

OK, now which of the values in your home and in your culture are aiding in these goals (no change needed,) are value neutral (conscious decision is needed on whether to change the value or not,) or are hindering your goals (change is called for)?

We know from the pyschological literature that people have a tendency to procrastinate, especially on long term issues. It's simply easier to put off for another day the hard choices. Yet, from the neuroscience literature we know that brain development starts early and it's difficult to overwrite development that's already taken place. As for culture, values are picked up early in life, and then reinforced throughout the later years.

I think back to that "Carleton" quote and think it speaks to the issue, even though it caricatures the problem.

I'm reminded of a study that looked at two categories of children raised in alcoholic families. One group of children conciously rejected those values and didn't drink at all. The others drank, and a good many themselves were alcoholics. Now what the study found was that those who never drank had a hard time fitting into social situations that involved drinking. They felt uncomfortable and ill at ease and like outsiders because they didn't relate to the changing consciousness going on around them. Even when they were with the same social group and everyone was sober, the drinking culture infused the personalities of the social drinkers and they felt a bit like odd-men out.

The children who didn't reject that lifestyle fit right into the social scene, and had good feelings of identity. Of course they had to contend with the problems that their drinking brought into their lives, but in terms of social connectedness they related very well to other drinkers.

Now, if I recall correctly, there was an ethnicity component to this study, where the drinking was integral to cultural identity. The children who were drinkers had deep ties to the ethnic networks. The children who rejected the alcoholism of their parents had a very high out-migration rate from their ethnic networks and they sought new networks and cultures to consciously adopt.

Now, I wouldn't be surprised if they did a follow-on study looking at the next generation of children and found that the children of the out-migration group had lower incidences of alcoholism and lower feelings of social outcastness because they would be in a different group with different cultural values. These grandchildren, so to speak, would have benefited from the hardship their parents endured by breaking the cultural cycle that they rejected and starting a new one.

The grandchildren of the traditional group will probably continue the cycle with the exception of the few out-migrators in the new generation.

Something's going on with black male culture - that's no secret. Sure it could all discrimination from the dominant culture but I've got loads of studies that say that that's not the sole cause. I don't see how one can have it both ways, you know, embrace the culture and have little risk of picking up some of that negative vibe. Those out-migrators in the study had a generational hiccup. They made their choices for themselves and endured the hardship and cultural dislocations, but their children, I would think, would benefit from those decisions and sacrifices.

Anyways, I through that out. I don't know really how relevant it is but it is one data point to consider.
 

I fully intend to take some credit for your blossoming popularity!

I teach future teachers about race, class, equity. Most of the future teachers are white and middle-class, and I am always a little surprised about their lack of knowledge about race and class. BUt I will say that most come into Ed SChool with really good hearts and desires, and really intending to do good work. They want to find ways to educate all kids of all races, even those who are more challenging than your LO.

What I learn from reading your writings is that you struggle too on the other end. And when I teach next semester, I may use some of your writing in my class to try to get my students to be in your head. I want them to look out their first classroom of kids from all races, and realize that they should assume nothing, but realize that there is race in the class.

It's hard to explain in a comment. But keep writing, please. And remember that many white people are not sure what to do either. Not because they are evil, but because they are ignorant about race.

I believe in my heart that this can be helped. Thanks.
 

Thanks JennyD! I believe that we are all struggling with the same problem, and - more importantly- what the solution might look like. The attention is inspiring me to stop talking about this and create a benefit outside my family. I give you all the credit you want. It only takes one person to change the world...
 

It's great to be black and smart! Even though I am white....good luck with your children!
 

Agreed. Thanks.
 

Good luck, best wishes. The toughest times are yet to come. More than anything it is your example of caring about learning and proper values that will matter to LO and make an impression on him. No matter how hopeless it seems in the teen years, never compromise, never give up. You will be rewarded in the end with LO
grown up more as you wish.
 

And to think the toughest time are yet to come...Painful to think about.
 

These kinds of issues always got me depressed in school. Yeah, I was a white girl, but I had no problem pointing out that the black kids who did well were always made fun of for "acting white". What -- being ignorant is being authentically black?

I believe Thomas Sowell made the link-up to the old white redneck culture here. Because there "book-learning" was also ridiculed. They didn't call being educated "acting white", of course, but generally there was the idea that someone was getting above everybody else, or thought they were better than where they came from. I grew up in the South, and there are plenty of people who still have this attitude. So most of the learned people leave that area and go on to life elsewhere.

It's tough for kids. I was lucky in that I didn't care at all what the other kids thought, as all I cared about was my parents' approval. But my sisters got hit harder. The popularity and acceptance game is one that you just can't win.

No, it's not easy.

Anyway, I'm going to add you to my bookmarks. I'm also in NYC, and we're homeschooling our kids (note that the older one is 2, so this is normal for this age). I'm interested to see what kind of things you do, so we can get some ideas from you.
 

Meep: Don't abandon your dream of starting up a school!!! I'm already sick of just talking and I too want to put something into action. (It's partly my training.) The middle school model on your website is intriguing. It's about teaching the fundamentals AND life skills. (And these two things don't HAVE to be mutually exclusive.) Good luck!
 

"All I can think to do is expose him to variety of environments and put forth 'rules' that together instill the cultural values I want him to have."
I find it interesting that we are all so interested and concious about race and who is cool, and awareness of cultural values. I find it interesting because I am now VERY aware of these issues, and am trying to raise my children to be conciencious and comfortable in a variety of environments as well. Yet I look at how I grew up in a small town in Canada. In my school (both elementary and high school) we had one african canadian in the town. He was smart and he was one of the most popular, well loved, friendly guys in town. My group of friends included a child who was Asian, adopted by white parents, east indians, italian, filipino, and russian. I never thought this was unusual, and never gave a second thought to it, until I was 20 and in university where I found out this wasn't normal. I look at my child who is in school with a boy from isreal, sri lanka, korea, japan, the pacific islands, and iraq. She thinks this is normal. She doesn't look at these children any differently, (other than asking a quick question about the bindi). So why and how does the association of black/white, you/me, us/them become an issue? I have never gone to school in the USA, though having lived there I am aware of the cultural divide and the history behind it. However, I dare to say that in not recognizing difference through classification/race, but in that we are all different, you deny an important part of cultural understanding and history, but is the conciousness of difference worth it? Could we not then remove ourselves from being classified and having to stand within a box of preprescribed notions, and just get on with being who we are?
 

I'm not abandoning the school dream. It's just still in the idea stage, and I certainly don't have the capital to implement this (though, that's why I got the idea of running it as a co-op). But, like you, I've got work... and my husband is a stay-at-home full-time dad, so I'm the breadwinner and I'm trying to build a career.

It would be so great if I could start a(n affordable) school here in New York. Just between the taxation and regulation, I don't see it happening. Perhaps I could start out with some kind of homeschooling co-op around here? I don't know.

Anyway, Vernice, I'll be reading you. As your son is older than my daughters, I'm hoping you come across helpful resources, homeschooling groups, whatever before I do. I've had a tough time finding stuff, as so much is centered around the public or private school systems.

By the way, I'm a die-hard math person, and would love to turn more people on to math, so if you have any questions about various math topics feel free to email me (meep@marypat.org). I know all sorts of fun math books, about non-traditional math subjects... logic puzzles, geometry, etc. Perhaps above where your son is now, but you know -- that doesn't hurt. My dad gave me math books well before I was ready to fully understand, and I did what I could when I could. I learned most of my math at home with Dad, though I went to some excellent public schools growing up.
 

The whole math stuff works for me. My model for the literature part in working (I may go into more detail in this afternoon's blog - maybe more like this evening). I've been using Shiller's Math for the basic math concepts. I like it, but I probably could do better. We also count and group (It takes 10 minutes to get home. How long is that - count to 60, 10 times. OK don't want to do that, count to 20 3 times. That's one time. Good. Repeat that 15 times and we'll be home.) I'd love to get your suggestions on practicing math concepts at this stage.

As for anonymous...I don't know what to say. I think the whole race thing has a long and painful history in the United States. It would be great if all Americans could grow up in the enviornment you did in Canada. It would solve alot of the problem. Unfortunately, the vast, majority of Americans don't. That kind of environment would go a long way torward breaking down barriers.
 

Hi Vernice - I'm not sure whether you've already seen it, but you may want to give Kitchen Table Math a look. It's a self-described blooki (Part blog, part wiki, part book) dedicated to teaching kids math. (The stories behind the site - and its hosts - are here and here. Everyone there swears by Singapore and Saxon Math. They know their stuff - they can give you a LOT of information on math at all levels.

I think the site is a great resource for parents. Of course, I'm neither a parent nor a mathematician; I just hang out there because it's a fun & informative place to discuss math and math education. Thus far, I haven't been kicked out yet.
 

It's not cool to be smart, period. At least, it's not cool to let your intelligence show. African-Americans call it "acting white" and whites call it "being a nerd or geek."

Lots of parents think they want gifted kids, but they really don't. A genuinely gifted kid has unique needs that the school system generally can't/won't provide. Feeding a gifted kid's brain is WORK. Most people just want to SAY their kids are gifted.

I spent my entire childhood struggling to understand why I couldn't be both popular and smart. It never occurred to me to hide my abilities, even if other people thought it made them look bad. Now I've come to the conclusion that you can't have both without compromising your integrity. Better to be smart and genuine than popular and fake. "Man looks on the outside, but God looks on the heart."

I see a lot of myself in my oldest daughter. But because I homeschool her, I find that she's much less concerned about others' opinions of her than I ever was. (Well, for now, at least. She's only 6.)

Since I became a Christian, I've abandoned all kinds of mainstream beliefs and practices. Homeschooling is only one example. Is that a rejection of certain societal values? Yes, of course. But which is better to pursue -- truth and virtue, or culture?

Not being African-American, I have a hard time understanding why any culture's values should be swallowed whole. Is it part of the culture to be more loyal to the larger community than to one's own family? What I mean is, are there a lot of bright AA kids whose parents won't encourage them to achieve for fear of a backlash from the larger community?
 

Brendam;

I appreciate the honesty of your comments. I can feel that there is alot behind your words. Let's see if I can attempt to address some of your questions. I DON'T think cultural values should be swallowed whole, but at the same time, there is nothing like feeling rejection from your own culture, an identity group which also largely defines your experience in your own country. And invariably, you leave the safety of your family to go out into the world. To answer your last question, I don't believe most parents would actively discourage their kids from performing in school. It's much more subtle than that..

But I think the biggest point is that none of these issues can really be looked at in isolation. They are not mutually exclusive. They are all mixed up together: being smart, being black in America, not being mainstream, dealing with issues around class.

The BEST defense - I agree- is the strength of the extended family, faith and smarts to make the best of the world which IS NOT FAIR! As I mother, I tailor the protection, the armor, I offer my son to fit what I believe he will need to combat the struggles he's most likely to meet. And love him.
 

Vernice,

Thanks for responding. I'm sorry if I was rambling -- I had several hobbit-sized interruptions while I was typing. :-)

I think I understand what you're saying about feeling rejection from the very arena where you ought to feel most accepted.

I re-read your original post and I have a bunch of Stupid White Girl questions...

TangoMan asked about abandoning certain practices or beliefs while holding on to AA culture. It sounds like shorthand for a lot of things that you know intuitively, but just go over my head. I hear phrases like "culture" and "heritage" all the time, and they sound mysterious to me, as an outsider. Can you put more flesh on the bones for me?

You gave the example of your relative who was trying to be perceived as cool around other African Americans. Can you describe to me what that looks like? I mean, put me in the room with the guy and tell me what I would see and hear him do.

Here's another one that I just know I'm going to flub in print: What kinds of things are important to you as an African American that are different from mainstream white America? For example, "Whites tend to do A because they value B, while African Americans tend to do C in the same situation because they value D more than B." Does that make any sense at all?

Which aspects of your heritage are you striving to embrace, and which aspects are you letting go of? (If you've addressed this elsewhere on your blog, accept my apologies. I've only read one or two posts so far.)

If I sound ignorant, well, it's because I am. :-) Trying to remedy that.

Oh, BTW, I second Independent George's recommendation of Kitchen Table Math. It's one of my daily visits. There's no way they'd kick him out -- he's got too much to contribute. Except if he suddenly turns around and starts extolling the virtues of Everyday Math and Trailblazers, hee hee hee.

Another good place to go to discuss curricula is The Well-Trained Mind website. I post at their message boards regularly (http://www.welltrainedmind.com/activeboards.php). There are some very wise and experienced parents over there, and a few goofballs like me. :-D
 

You know, if I'd just looked around your blog first instead of blathering on about the Well-Trained Mind, I would've noticed your link to their website on your main page. Double duh.

As Gilda Radner would say, "Never mind!"
 

OK Brenda m. I'll come up with something this evening (I'll probably include it as a comment). Tonight we have Chinese class - so it may be late.
 

I've been trying to think of a way to describe Black culture, and I'm drawing a blank. It's so complex, I'm having trouble breaking this down into discrete pieces. I just can only come up with analogies that help it make sense. How about this? If I'm from the midwest and move to NY in my 30s, and am surrounded by New Yorkers, then there chances are there is something different and special about being in a group of midwesterners again. I could say they're more friendly, or more laid back, or nicer but there isn't much I could say to give you that unique feeling of being a midwesterner around other midwesterners. I could point to humor, to diet, to the landscape, even to the types of things midwesterners that I grew up with know or talk about. But, it is the cummulative set of experiences that make that meaningful to me. Probably the core values that I encounter in the two environments don't change much if that makes any sense.

OK, here's another example. Let's say I moved to China and learned Mandarin. And let's say my accent, knowledge of modern sayings etc is "neo-native". Still, I never fit in. My body language, the way I smile, the way I interact or handle a crisis always give me away. And so part of what it means for me to 'live' in China is to feel VERY comfortable ALWAYS being an outsider. And that - eventually- does something weird to your psychie. I may even develop some skill around the comfort of being an outsider. At first, I might get mad when people look at me like I'm an alien, or as I wait extra long for service or become super proactive at forming relationships. Then I realize that makes things MUCH worse (since folks are afraid of me anyway.) Let's say I get soooo good at mastering the behavior and language that folks admire me. But maybe sometimes I don't want to have to try so hard for intimacy. Maybe, I'm longing to meet someone with whom I have some kind of instant connection I don't have to work for. Or maybe I just want someone to get my jokes. Maybe I want to remember what it's like to roll around the floor in hysterics or laugh with my feet up in there air.

So above I'm trying to imply the very subtle feeling of what I mean by African American culture. It shouldn't be foreign. It's partly about knowlege, and behaviors, really more about the more subtle experiences. I'm not sure if that helps. I've got to think about what part of culture might need to be 'let go' tomorrow.

It's late. Now I'm rambling...I'll be thinking more clearly tomorrow.
 

Vernice,

I understand what you're saying.

So, tell me one of your favorite jokes that I won't get.
 

BTW, in case it wasn't clear, I have friends of lots of different ethnicities. I can't even say that all my closest friends are black - not true at all! There is just something different about those relationships that's all. At this stage, I'm thrilled when I can find ANY friendships that are genuine and supportive. If I get a handful of those regardless of race or nationality, I am alright.